NoGriefer mod injustice

[GNGR bred boi]

(I do not condone harassment to anyone mentioned in this thread)

To start off: I love this game, and I've always had. I've had my fair share of bad experiences, but for the majority of the time I've had a great time. This game series is my childhood and my passion, and I only wish the best for it. 

In my time playing this game I've made some mistakes and bad choices, I've griefed people who (at the time) in my eyes deserved it, I never did it for fun. I now realize the fault of my actions and I deeply regret them and I'd like to sincerely apologize to anyone who I've hurt and intentionally griefed. I solemnly swear to never do it again, and I have changed my ways and an eye for an eye only makes the world blind. I wanted to make this thread not only to get this guilt off of my chest, but to bring justice in the community to the innocent people, and people who have changed their ways, but are still caught up in the banlist of this mod:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2007563445&searchtext=NoGriefer

The NoGriefer mod for Don’t Starve Together enforces a kick/ban system that can be set to automatically call a vote by the user using the mod. This would be a good system to prevent griefers from joining the server if it weren’t for the mod’s majorly flawed banlist system. The system put in place is inaccurate and too slow to be properly deployed. The ban list and ban appeal is manual, not automated. Which means bias and time spent for updating the list are a key flaw in the mod’s design. There have been falsely accused people with lack of true evidence against them, or simply people on the list who the mod creator and / or community do not like, which in itself is denying them of their rights or their side of the story. Although many people disliked in the community have been shown to be toxic to others, this solely is not a valid reason to have them unable to join a server with anyone who has the mod installed.

 

This should not be the way griefing is handled. Denying people of entry from public servers, Klei Official servers namely, is not justified in any form. It ruins the general game experience for others. I know that sentence sounds ironic, coming from a past griefer, but me and many others have changed their ways, and many others, that should not even be on the list are there anyway, for no good reason. Self admining with these mods should not be permitted on Klei Official public servers, and if you truely do not feel comfortable on Klei servers due to griefers, this has been addressed in the past, but, there are alternatives like private servers, friends only servers or dedicated servers hosted by groups with their own banlist put in place for their servers specifically and even server only mods that are meant to prevent griefing from happening. 

 

There have been opinions and discussions of this type of mod in the past, and many agreed it would be a bad idea. Many others say it would be a good idea to have a universal banlist, however the execution of one would cause more problems than solve them, such as abuse of the mod and unfairness for others who truely have changed their ways. Additionally, it causes seemingly innocent people to get caught in the crossfire or people who have had a bad experience once and went off on another player, it happens, but this sort of punishment should not be permanent and for all servers. It also smears the reputation of someone for making a bad mistake once, that sort of thinking is close-minded and unforgiving. New players would also experience the same situation, burning something either accidently or intentionally once and then being put on the mod's banlist and humiliated. 

 

The mod is using a banlist from a trusted group, however despite appealing my ban on said trusted group, I am still denied of my appeal on the mod. 

Spoiler

I really have my hands tied in this situation, I've been nothing but reasonable. The image really isn't necessary, but it proves my point that bias is a factor in this situation and the mod can and will be used maliciously. As stated, I have been unbanned from the trusted list, but I still remain banned on the mod. 

 

Policing the game should not be done by a hierarchy of players, but by the game creators, Klei entertainment. The game developers should take this problem into their own hands, not the community, because doing so would just cause more toxicity in the community and cause pointless arguing. Klei has even put into place some anti griefing measures already, they care about their games and the quality of them, the argument "Klei isn't doing anything to stop griefers" just isn't the case.

 

My final closing thoughts: I don't think this mod should stay up on the workshop, I have seen first hand reputations ruined, abuse of this mod and people being slandered because of this mod and it really has done more bad than good and it is damaging to the community. I truely am sorry for ever griefing, but I will make it clear I have never personally attacked anyone or slandered anyone over a bad experience on a game, I ask for forgiveness and fairness in this situation and I wish the best to everyone. Once again I do not condone harassment to anyone mentioned in this thread. 

[Gibberson]

Many people in the past said this would have been a bad idea, we now have proof as to why.

[Jrramon_GOLD]

This has been a problem for a big while now. This is something me and my dst friends have been talking about on discord. So yea this is a huge issue and this needs to be addressed

[SinancoTheBest]

When the mod calls out someone I usually don't start a vote to kick them immediately but observe or even interrogate them. I guess that should be a part of the "tips to be courteous to other survivors". But when it works it does really work, it's sad that a number of people in the lists who don't grief anymore are still punished for their previous actions but so many times when I ignored the warning, the indicated player ended up griefing in exactly the same way. Therefore I cannot fault the mod for being inherently evil, it can be useful. As a person in the list, if you see someone calling out your name, it might be best to try to explain yourself and prove yourself as the asset to the team that you are.

It's not a very popular mod anyway, not many people use it, it's just more prevalent in long lasting public worlds. Perhaps the modder should remove the auto start-vote functionality. But for the most part, it is a helpful mod that really proves itself useful in open public worlds that aim to continue for long. I personally wouldn't want it to be erased as it served me well, even if you totally ignore the warnings, it helps to see who to pay extra attention to and check their behavior through simple observation or ocuvigils.

 

Speaking of this mod, I usually have the "notify when players equip harmful tools" functionality off, but can anyone tell me the potential rationale behind considering piggy back a potentially harmful tool? It's always weird and annoying to me when people using the mod without configurations 'spam' the chat with "ThisPerson picked up BANK"

[loganpea]

People on the list on this mod by default will be instantly vote-kicked, but you can configure it to just give the warning popup, which is what I did for a month. I have found most people to be innocent, or have been added to the list a long time ago, which is why I unsubscribed to this mod since. I've had an awkward moment with a couple of people when the mod notified me in front of them, and one of them said they were added to the list from being instantly kicked from another server for no reason, yet they were added to the "trusty" banlist.

[Captain_Rage]

21 minutes ago, GNGR bred boi said:

Policing the game should not be done by a hierarchy of players, but by the game creators, Klei entertainment.

The developers at Klei are occupied with developing the game. Any anti abuse system is subject to abuse and it is reasonable to let the players play Don't Starve Together however they want. The only time it makes sense for the developers to intervene, in my opinion, is if a specific person is targeted for systematic misdeeds or harassment on their platform. I only play with friends and have no issues with griefing whatsoever (even if unintentional incidents tend to happen but that is what makes Don't Starve Together great and thrilling).

Curating mods also defeats their purpose: to let people implement the features they want. That being said, I was never a fan of mods and have always been avoiding them. Even if there was a mod to publicly target and blacklist me from a set of servers I honestly could not care less since this is a perfect example why to avoid playing with random strangers or mods altogether to begin with.

[Tranoze]

When i created the mod, in my mind set, was never for everyone to use, it was for my friends and player i played with in public server to feel safe when they play there, that when people with griefer history wont have a chance to come to their base.

Some of the player got griefed by you still play in public server a lot, and the first thing i do when you appeal is ask them, do they forgive you? You know what, all of them say they don't, if i have to remove you from the ban list, atleast keep a secret list so they can still kick you because most of them still playing in public server.
What im I making this mod for if user using it cant feel safe playing public server, when someone griefed them before can join without them knowing?

Do me a favor, sincerely apology to everyone you griefed, and once they actually forgive you and can play with you, i can finally remove you from the list.

Unless you dont remember anyone you griefed, you think they call it a day instead of having trauma of their weekend work be burn, they got killed in game in cooperative mode.

I dont unban people randomly, I have to look up to the player that the griefer griefed, and ask them for the permission, and this time, you dont have that permission.

[Maxposting]

epic flame war thread

[Superlucas1231]

1 hour ago, SinancoTheBest said:

can anyone tell me the potential rationale behind considering piggy back a potentially harmful tool?

If it's piggy back and other backpack-like item, it's probably to let you know if someone picked up your backpack if you dropped it to put on armor for a fight or something like that. 

If it's just strictly piggy back....idk, maybe to tell the server you're wasting a possible pig house/football helmet on a arguably worse backpack? 

[Tranoze]

Just now, Superlucas1231 said:

If it's piggy back and other backpack-like item, it's probably to let you know if someone picked up your backpack if you dropped it to put on armor for a fight or something like that. 

If it's just strictly piggy back....idk, maybe to tell the server you're wasting a possible pig house/football helmet on a arguably worse backpack? 

 

1 hour ago, SinancoTheBest said:

Can anyone tell me the potential rationale behind considering piggy back a potentially harmful tool?

Let me teach you the way. Put your rare items that you dont want to carry with you on piggy back, and if it got steal, you will know who steal it because in order to take it from piggy back you have to equip piggy back. It work because there are rarely anyone use piggy back in public world.

And because of that, item you put in piggy back are now safe, which make it piggy bank.

[. . .]

2 hours ago, GNGR bred boi said:

Policing the game should not be done by a hierarchy of players, but by the game creators, Klei entertainment. The game developers should take this problem into their own hands

if klei wants to police anything they can police their own official servers, everything else has to be left alone i dont want anyone to police my world but myself.

[Guille6785]

well I've never seen anyone use that mod in my life

[Tranoze]

2 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

well I've never seen anyone use that mod in my life

Anti griefer is something if you do it too perfectly, noone will notice you do anything at all. The mod also have silent mode.

[SinancoTheBest]

18 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Let me teach you the way. Put your rare items that you dont want to carry with you on piggy back, and if it got steal, you will know who steal it because in order to take it from piggy back you have to equip piggy back. It work because there are rarely anyone use piggy back in public world.

And because of that, item you put in piggy back are now safe, which make it piggy bank.

Ahh, that is a pretty genious little tactic there. Though at the same time, it just reminds me that I need to piggyback over regular backpack more often.

[Checkered Scars]

Wow you're actually an egomaniac, you realize your mod has kicked numerous people i've held dear because you're too dishonest to unblock people and stop manipulating information for your own gain? i've seen what you've done, more innocent people get hurt because of your vindictive authoritarian mod.

[Checkered Scars]

You deliberately searched this post because you know someone knows you're manipulating data, but doesn't have hard evidence.

[GNGR bred boi]

1 hour ago, Tranoze said:

When i created the mod, in my mind set, was never for everyone to use, it was for my friends and player i played with in public server to feel safe when they play there, that when people with griefer history wont have a chance to come to their base.

Some of the player got griefed by you still play in public server a lot, and the first thing i do when you appeal is ask them, do they forgive you? You know what, all of them say they don't, if i have to remove you from the ban list, atleast keep a secret list so they can still kick you because most of them still playing in public server.
What im I making this mod for if user using it cant feel safe playing public server, when someone griefed them before can join without them knowing?

Do me a favor, sincerely apology to everyone you griefed, and once they actually forgive you and can play with you, i can finally remove you from the list.

Unless you dont remember anyone you griefed, you think they call it a day instead of having trauma of their weekend work be burn, they got killed in game in cooperative mode.

I dont unban people randomly, I have to look up to the player that the griefer griefed, and ask them for the permission, and this time, you dont have that permission.

It shouldn't be for anyone to use if it's going to be abused, you can have you and your friends play on a private server, taking over public servers really removes the point of those servers being public for everyone to play on and you and your friends shouldn't have the authority to take over PUBLIC servers. People taking over Klei servers isn't new, and I know this, but this really just makes it easier for people to take them over. The only real problem I have with the mod is that it calls an automatic vote kick, so anyone who is on the list that joins the server can't even load in to say anything, it just shuts them down immediately. How am I or anyone else even supposed to apologize if I cannot even join the server in the first place? A lot of people have their profiles private or comments private aswell, additionally, I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to actually name anyone on the forums. 

[Cowboy Maxwell]

This mod seems more for the purpose of witch hunting and shaming those who may not even grief anymore. And if you need this then why are you running a public server? Just run a private one for friends only or with password restrictions.

[Checkered Scars]

Wow its sad that it took 3 hours for someone to understand why this post was made.

[Tranoze]

3 minutes ago, GNGR bred boi said:

It shouldn't be for anyone to use if it's going to be abused, you can have you and your friends play on a private server, taking over public servers really removes the point of those servers being public for everyone to play on and you and your friends shouldn't have the authority to take over PUBLIC servers. People taking over Klei servers isn't new, and I know this, but this really just makes it easier for people to take them over. The only real problem I have with the mod is that it calls an automatic vote kick, so anyone who is on the list that joins the server can't even load in to say anything, it just shuts them down immediately. How am I or anyone else even supposed to apologize if I cannot even join the server in the first place? A lot of people have their profiles private or comments private aswell, additionally, I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to actually name anyone on the forums. 

I dont play much with them now, they are the one playing in public server, and they have their own world to protect.

2 minutes ago, Cowboy Maxwell said:

This mod seems more for the purpose of witch hunting and shaming those who may not even grief anymore. And if you need this then why are you running a public server? Just run a private one for friends only or with password restrictions.

So you mean public server are meant for griefer, you can just join, grief and run away without any consequences? Griefer only spend 5~20 days in a world depend on how bad they want that world to be grief, and run away thinking there are nothing we can do to stop them.

[chirsg]

I respect attempts of culling grief attempts on public worlds. Ideally, you want new people to join your worlds, however for some, they have harmful or excessively selfish intentions. It's a 2000+ day world, they won't be in survival any longer, they're starting to do fun things like building and setting up interesting ways to accommodate being so far in.

It's a lot of work you want new people to see. And new people usually means you want the world to be public. A blacklist to filter out anyone you don't want to take a chance on is the prerogative of the person running the server. I've been criticized before for my method of vetting new players, as I jail them and stop them from escaping spawn.

After they've told me what they want to do, which is usually take a look at a world after day 8000, I'll give them a tour and if they like the world and want to be a part of it, they can become regulars and help me build or do errands. 

I'm all for a blacklist to protect public worlds and the works in them. If anyone is suspected of being on a blacklist, it's up to them to go the extra mile to make up for what they did. 

I've had ex griefers in my world who have proven themselves and reached out to me on steam.

[Checkered Scars]

5 minutes ago, chirsg said:

I respect attempts of culling grief attempts on public worlds. Ideally, you want new people to join your worlds, however for some, they have harmful or excessively selfish intentions. It's a 2000+ day world, they won't be in survival any longer, they're starting to do fun things like building and setting up interesting ways to accommodate being so far in.

It's a lot of work you want new people to see. And new people usually means you want the world to be public. A blacklist to filter out anyone you don't want to take a chance on is the prerogative of the person running the server. I've been criticized before for my method of vetting new players, as I jail them and stop them from escaping spawn.

After they've told me what they want to do, which is usually take a look at a world after day 8000, I'll give them a tour and if they like the world and want to be a part of it, they can become regulars and help me build or do errands. 

I'm all for a blacklist to protect public worlds and the works in them. If anyone is suspected of being on a blacklist, it's up to them to go the extra mile to make up for what they did. 

I've had ex griefers in my world who have proven themselves and reached out to me on steam.

This looks to me like you respect authoritarianism and have no remorse for those who have been falsely accused or have never greifed innocents, only in revenge due to them treating you like you are lesser than human.

[Checkered Scars]

Are unfortunate souls not allowed to be angry despite never being treated justly?

[JoeW]

Please keep posts on topic and polite without name calling or personal attacks. Thanks. 

[Checkered Scars]

i didn't want to take this route, he did.

3 minutes ago, JoeW said:

Please keep posts on topic and polite without name calling or personal attacks. Thanks. 

i didn't want to take this route, he did.

I knew something would happen and most people wouldn't understand the context, but OP insisted.